Liz Neuman is Third Sweat Lodge Victim to Die of Heat and Stupidity
The Arizona Sweat Lodge Body Count has climbed by one. Liz Neuman was a devoted follower of James Ray, the self-help flim-flam artist who was paid almost a half-million bucks to bake 60 people to near-death in a home made oven in the Arizona desert.
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And when Liz wasn’t buying fraudulent seminars and training sessions from James Ray, she was peddling Herbalife which utilizes a multi-level marketing scheme. Her online Meetup profile ironically said:
One of my favorite sayings is “If you don’t take care of your body, where will you live?“. I believe a positive attitude, low glycemic diet, regular exercise and quality supplements are key in today’s world for optimum health and fitness.
I feel healthy and strong every day. I am focused on improving my level of fitness and reducing my body fat to the healthy range a woman (18-22%)
She is even quoted on James Ray’s homepage here:
“I immediately began to attract many goals and dreams into my life that I used to think were impossible. I was able to walk away from a job that no longer served me and focus my attention on a business I am passionate about.”
—Liz Neuman
Prior Lake, MN
Here death was reported at the AP here:
A Minnesota woman who was hospitalized with damage to multiple organs after she was overcome in an Arizona sweat lodge ceremony died Saturday, sheriff’s officials said.
The death of 49-year-old Liz Neuman brings the total number of deaths from the Oct. 8 incident at a resort near Sedona to three. Authorities are treating the deaths as homicides, but no charges have been filed.
Neuman was among more than 50 people crowded inside the sweat lodge run by self-help guru James Arthur Ray. An emergency call two hours after they entered the lodge reported two people not breathing.
Twenty-one people were taken to area hospitals with illnesses ranging from dehydration to kidney failure. Kirby Brown, 38, of Westtown, N.Y., and James Shore, 40, of Milwaukee died upon arrival at a hospital.
No one else remains hospitalized.
Neuman was among Ray’s earliest followers and had attended dozens of his events. According to Ray’s Web site, Neuman was the leader of the Minneapolis-area “Journey Expansion Team.”
Ray had rented the Angel Valley Retreat Center for his five-day “Spiritual Warrior” event that culminated in the sweat lodge ceremony. Participants paid between $9,000 and $10,000 to attend the retreat near Sedona, a resort town 115 miles north of Phoenix that draws many in the New Age spiritual movement.
Liz Neuman died attempting to create new neural pathways in her otherwise empty noggin. James Ray’s mind control techniques include mass starvation, physical stress and other motivational sessions which simulate a spiritual reaction. But no one in their right mind should have thought it was a good idea to climb into a home made oven. She didn’t take care of her body, so now she’s not living anywhere.
And James Earle Ray only killed one guy. This James Ray is up to three now. And he is still walking around as a free man. Previous posts are here and here.
You are soooo right! Just another loon looking for eternal youth and health. Fool!
You moron. Speaking as a friend and coworker of Liz Neuman, maybe you should return to your mothers basement and do a little more research before you start spewing stupidity about Liz. What you neglected to say is that Liz was a highly trained IT professional who, in addition to supporting a million dollar companys computer system, enjoyed spending her free time following the teachings of James Ray (ok, mistakenly I’ll admit), helping out her adult children and living a normal life. While I do believe this idiot James Arthur Ray should be put on trial for his flimflam antics and unsafe doings, I DON’T believe Liz should.
Are you kidding me? What kind of a person are you to say things like that about someone you do not know? Is this what the world has become ? What if she were your Mother, Sister, or daughter? How do you think her family that is grieving will feel if they see what you said?
You have never made an error in judgement?
The woman has passed away tragically. Please use some respect
Dear Huh?
If it were my sister, mother, daughter, friend, I would not have sat idly by while she attended brainwashing sessions at the cost of tens of thousands of dollars. But without simpleton fools like Liz to prey upon, guys like James Ray wouldn’t have a job.
That she had friends and loved ones that kept their mouths shut about her foolishness speaks to flaws in their character too.
People need to take responsibility for their actions. She wasn’t necessarily an unwilling victim. She paid thousands and perhaps hundreds of thousands of dollars to be a part of Ray’s half-baked but successful for him schemes.
Other qualities of Liz don’t outweigh the stupidity to which she ascribed. Sure she was nice, loving, and smart… wait, 2 out of 3 isn’t bad; but bad decisions are bad decisions, and she paid with her life.
“professional who, in addition to supporting a million dollar companys (sic) computer system,”
Make that a professional who supported a million dollar ripoff and killer James Ray. At least it wasn’t a mass suicide, UFO awaiting, castrating cult! Doh, that’s been done already.
PS. I don’t to need have known her to judge her behavior.
I am in noway condoning James Ray or what state of mind his followers were in because I have no clue where anyones heads were at in this matter.
What I am saying is try and have a little compassion in your judgement. I am sure that her friends and family do not need to hear how “stupid” she is just 1 day after her death.
Sweat lodges can be fantastic for spiritual cleansing if they are performed in the traditional Native American way! I have particiapted in many sweats and I love them. The problem here was someone that didn’t know what they were doing got people to do this in an unsafe way! I am sure that the participants were not properly hydrated going into this and stayed in (by choice or by manipulation) longer than they could handle. My heart goes out to her family. And those of the others who passed.
Pat,
Wow, and I thought Mr Ray’s public responses and opinions on this entire situation was distasteful and alarming. You have gone far beyond with this post. Though I support free speech and Constitutional freedoms, as a student of Political Science and History and as a patriot who served this country in combat, I also believe in making wise and informed opinions and remarks, especially in a forum that is able to be viewed by the entire world. Who are you to comment so disrespectfully about my aunt and her life? You have proven yourself to be an ignorant and unthoughful person to make such remarks. You should be ashamed of your error, it is very offensive to me (Liz’ Nephew) and the rest of the family.
I kindly ask that you remove this distastful post out of respect for Liz Neuman (deceased)and her surviving family.
Please be aware that the family has retained an attorney and is monitoring all media on Liz’s death.
Again I kindly ask that you respect my request and remove this post immediately.
Josh
FYI
Mr. Ray is the epitome of another Radical and Extremist New Age Leader, his belief system and values are a twisted and distorted blend of every major religious or moral system known to man. He allows for just enough truth to be included to get people to believe him. He further manipulates his followers into handing over their own wealth and life savings to participate in these crazy Wilderness Retreats that promote a complete lack of health and safety of each of the participants. As noted in the crazy message that was sent to each of the participants in the Spiritual Warrior Retreat:
“Keep in mind that we will be working diligently to make this event memorable. For this reason, it is important that we do not disclose any further information regarding the event schedule or planned activities. However, we will tell you that it is going to be an exciting, unforgettable and transformational week!”
This along with the RELEASE FORM that was required to be signed, witnessed, and notarized basically has come out from several participants that it was almost peer pressure or coercion to get participants to sign the form.
Again though I agree with Brett that it is not responsible to criticize the New Age Movement for this tragic event, it is THIS VERY EVENT and the circumstances surrounding the unnecessary deaths of 3 people that prove the lack of logic, reason, truth, and credibility behind the entire New Age Movement and those that lead and teach its belief systems.
Mr James Arthur Ray’s days of deceit and manipulation, along with complete theft of others wealth is quickly drawing to a close. Just like all the other nut jobs before him that have lied and manipulated people, his rise to fame, wealth and power is going to end in his own demise and complete embarrassment. His demise and fall is a testament to the false teachings of the New Age Movement and many other belief systems that he promoted.
False Prophets and those that deceive and manipulate people and play on their emotions, spirituality, etc… are sure to face the consequences for their actions, just like Mr Ray will be shortly.
Prayers and empathy for the families that lost loved ones in this tragic event: God bless you all in your grieving. Rest assured that God has seen the evil that has come from this event and those responsible, and he will bring justice to pass.
In loving Memory of:
James Shore
Kirby Brown
Lizbeth Neuman
Three deaths that took good people from their families and this earth before their time.
We will not forget!
Josh,
The post stays. How else would anyone see the great commentary you added otherwise?
I’m sorry you lost your aunt. But she was not a smart woman to have consistently made the bad choices she did. How much does a lawyer charge to “monitor all media?”
You had a chance to point out what about my post was inaccurate, but you didn’t say anything.
I agree with Josh, Pat. I’ve been searching the internet for info on this egomaniacal sicko, James Ray, and have left a few entries of my own, but it’s different to speak of the deceased so rudely. Namecalling should be reserved for those who do evil, like James Ray, not the naive or gullible.
I’ve been doing a fair amount of research on the tactics that people like JR use to lure folks in and almost hypnotize them. They use intense psychological and physical methods. To blow them off is to downplay the effectiveness of these techniques, thereby leaving the door open for more people to be duped. And the person who says, ‘that would never happen to me’ is just the person some of these guys are looking for. Check out rickross.com–a site devoted to cult info. It’s truly scary how powerful and insidious some of these persuasion techniques are.
James Ray can rightly be accused of arrogance. Don’t be like him.
Lynn,
Thanks for the comments, but Gosh, I fail to see how I have spoken of the dead in a rude manner.
Rickross is a great resource and if it weren’t for this mess, I wouldn’t have known about some of these sickos like James Ray. But make no mistake, Lynn. Predators only pick off the weak. I don’t downplay the power of the predator.
I, personally, would just concentrate on exposing James Ray for the scam artist he is. He’s a dangerous man who needs to be taken down. You have a great medium here for communicating and it detracts from what you’re saying when people think, “Man, I’d hate for someone to talk about my family like that.” Even if you think it’s true.
I’ve known really sweet people who’ve been ripped off and otherwise scammed by others in various walks of life. Did they lack critical-thinking skills in those situations? Perhaps. But it just seems cruel to make fun of them under the circumstances. I’d rather try to figure out how JR did it and put it out in public to try and educate as many people as possible. That’s what Rick Ross tries to do. These ‘gurus’ generally operate in the absence of knowledge–they prey on trusting.
Anyway, I look forward to anything more you have to say about James Ray.
Lynn, thanks again for your thoughts on this. Rest assured I am going to document James Ray’s career destruction and his eventual and inevitable stint in jail for his crimes.
About criticizing his victims’ willingness to participate in deadly mind altering exercizes and games- I am only stating facts. Those facts aren’t what people like to hear. People who drink themselves to death or die of lung cancer from smoking, or die of heroin overdose aren’t made to be saints. They die from doing something foolish and ill-advised.
One difference, however- Family and friends hopefully attempt to intervene in their activities. Tell them that their chosen behavior will lead to death and destruction.
I have yet to hear of any of the family members of the James Ray spiritual warrior class step up and say that they had attempted to dissuade their deceased family members from participating in these cult-like activity. In fact, I sense quite the opposite.
Here’s a really well-reasoned and damning article with intelligent follow-up comments that I think you’d find interesting:
http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/011748.html
If you read some of the comments (it can take awhile), people go into the possible ‘whys’ behind the participants’ behavior. The best part is the original article that thoroughly excoriates JR. Yay.
Well thank you Lynn for attempting to reason with Pat. I believe Pat fails to see the point in my post. Though myself and the entire family would like to see nothing more than Mr Ray to be brought to justice and put behind bars for a long time; I still believe that the name calling and poor choice of wording on this subject clearly depicts that Pat has lost her sense of humanity. It is one thing to discuss the poor choice that participants made, and how they were no doubt brainwashed or manipulated into following this man, but please be assured that family members were not in support of Mr Ray and his teachings.
Pat again, you show your own ignorance and lack of information by continuing to post your opinions that are not informed.
Your original post is accurate to the point that you take a personal turn and start trying to assume who or what the participants or their families are about in their day to day lives.
My original reply was to hopefully shed some light on how we are not in support of Mr Ray’s teachings, and the severe impact his lies and deceit have made on our family.
I assume that you have had fun putting your opinion (2 cents worth) and getting all the responses that you did, but enough is enough.
I once more, ask that you remove this post immediately, not because I asked you to, or I have something to prove.
Please out of the kindness of your heart, just delete your entire thread out of respect for the families that have lost so much. To see such conversation being carried by people who did not know our family members that are deceased is deeply hurtful and is causing additional pain.
Emails, chat sessions, phone conversations, and letters are a better way to share your opinion in a less public and harmful way.
Again remember that the entire world sees what we post in these forums.
Thank you for your understanding on this matter, I hope that my request will be acknowledged and respected this time.
Sincerely,
Josh
Josh,
The post stays.
But you bring up a good point. You are the first family member to thus far say that you don’t support Ray’s teachings. But what efforts were there on the part of the family to prevent Liz from attending these training sessions?
Oh, and if you didn’t like this post, you really aren’t going to like this one.
Josh, I am so sorry for your loss. Your aunt sounds like a sweet lady who fell under the spell of an evil man. She certainly isn’t the first in history. I hope you sue the hell out of that guy. Have you seen any of the posts of the couple who talk about being in one of his seminars last year and being told to put the point of an arrow to the soft part of their throats and lean on it?!! The man says the shaft of his arrow broke and flew up and hit his eye and nearly blinded him, but no one was prepared for it medically. I only tell you this as further fuel for you legally. Not sure of the original post, but it’s quoted on rickross.com. I’d check out that whole thread–you’ll find many excellent sources regarding mind control and cult leaders as well as people who would love to help you out, I’m sure. Best of luck.
Tragedies bring out the worst in some people. Our consolation is that we learn just who and what some people are. Like Jimme Ray… and Pat. Apparently some people find a perverted satisfaction in kicking others when they are down – even if it’s a dead woman whose family is still grieving…. or perhaps especially. Doesn’t accomplish anything practical or productive, but so what? Why go after Jimmie Ray when it’s so much easier to insult a dead woman who cannot defend herself? So what if Jimmie Ray’s still perpetuating his crimes… so much more fun to pick on a dead woman.
In the final analysis, Pat’s words say everything about Pat and absolutely nothing about Liz.
Liz’s greatest mistake was in trusting the wrong person as she tried to improve not only her life, but the lives of others, through positive thought and proactive deeds in so many ways.
Who do I admire and respect more? Liz – a woman who did all she could to make the world a better place for everyone – friends, family, and strangers alike? Or Pat – a woman who spews hatefulness and hurtfulness from the blogosphere against complete strangers?
Liz, obviously.
And, Pat – Liz was a grown woman. Just how do you expect others to stop her?
Has your family made any effort to stop you from making a fool of yourself here? Either they don’t give a damn about you… or they know you are a grown woman with every right to make her own decisions… even when you end up playing the fool.
Lily,
There are so many things wrong with your holier-than-thou statements it will take me a few moments to point them out.
Liz’s death was not about trust. It was about a pursuit for a leftist idealism that caused her to die. She was spending tens of thousands of dollars on hogwash mysticism, and there is no such thing as “positive thought.” Smarter people know this. Smarter family members intervene when a one of their own begins to fall for chicancery fraud and abuse. They do not, as you do, stand by and idolize her for her pursuit of “something bigger.”
As a leftist like yourself, its the feelings that matter and the nobility of the attempt- not the success or failure of a deed. You say she was improving her life and the lives of others? How’d that work out? Is the world a better place yet? No? So she failed miserably there too. Her family lost a member and tens of thousands of dollars. I don’t see how that is an improvement in anyone’s eyes except for those that are willing to blind themselves to the truth of the poison new age ministers are peddling.
And how does what I write or say in public equate in your eyes to the horrifying death of a woman who paid 10 grand to be cooked alive in a desert oven?
You have no issue with Liz Neuman wasting her family’s fortune on fake religious training that put her in physical risk of death? That didn’t need to be stopped? But a blogger saying things is foolishness and requires family intervention?
You are twisted and sick Lily.
LOL!!! You are funny, Pat! Let me quit laughing here, and I’ll try to address your ignorance. Okay, I think I can maintain now…
Holier-than-thou attitude? But leftist? Leftists aren’t holy, and in fact, eschew all that is sacred and holy. So how that works, I’ll just leave to your twisted and sick mind.
Smart people understand that “positive” and “negative” can be used in several different contexts. Smart people understand that in this context, “positive thought” is synonymous with “confidence” and “faith.” Smart people understand that these are age old concepts, and Jimmie Ray just added a modern twist.
Smart people also understand the concept of free will in a religious context, as guaranteed in our Constitution, especially the Bill of Rights, aka the first ten amendments to the Constitution. (Yeah, lefties don’t talk much about the Constitution either…) Liz worked hard to go to school, earn her degree, and make a living for herself. She had every right to spend those dollars any way she saw fit and did not need my approval or anyone else’s approval. You obviously think that in your omnipotence (<>) that you have the wisdom and authority to tell others how to live their lives and how to spend their money… but smart people know better.
Smart people also understand that the moment of our birth, our death becomes a certainty. The good Lord above decided it was Liz’ time to go, or she would have been one of the survivors. If Liz had died in a car accident, I wouldn’t have condemned her for the choice to drive – altho statistically speaking, Liz was safer going into a sweat lodge than driving out of her driveway.
If you actually knew Liz, you would know that Liz did in fact make the world a better place for many, many people. I am just one of those people. (I know whereof I speak… you’re just talking out your ass). Further, I suspect Liz is not yet done making the world a better place; I hope and pray that her death will also improve life for others by stopping Jimmie Ray in his tracks. The Lord works in mysterious ways His wonders to behold.
Liz is home again, with the angels and our Heavenly Father, in the room which Jesus prepared for her. My grief is for myself and the many, many people who loved her and will miss her terribly. Not for Liz. She’s in a far better place than we are.
Smart people also understand that people with small, closed minds cannot understand this… ’nuff said. Carry on, Pat.
Lily, (there, ftfy) contrary to your understanding of the constitution, there is no guarantee of free will. There is religious freedom, but also a freedom to speak out against stupidity. Liz had the right to waste her family’s cash and treasure on fake religious practices, but someone should have said something to stop her. That you have adopted the leftist creed of blanket approval of all activities and nonjudgement only shows your flaws.
You say she’s in heaven, and maybe you’re right. But I must have missed the part in Sunday school where Jesus told his followers to take vision quests and go into primitive sweat lodges.
And how did keeping an “open mind” work out for Liz? For her family? Now that your friend is worm food, I hope your open mindedness brings you deep satisfaction.
No constitutional guarantee of free will? Okay. Just freedom of speech, religion, press, assembly, your person and property, etc. etc. etc. Smart people understand that you, Pat, have personally exemplified why the founding fathers felt it necessary to enumerate any and all freedoms – because of people like you who would impede any freedom not specifically enumerated.
And, yes, as previously specified, there is freedom of speech, so you can say and be as foolish as you choose. And far be it for me to stop you. But I will call you out on it any time I so choose – as I can also express my freedom of speech.
Obviously, it has never occurred to you that yes, in fact, not only myself but many family members and friends spoke to Liz about our concerns and doubts. (Why you would assume otherwise is beyond me. Why you would assume it’s any of your business is also beyond me). Liz chose to take a different path. Will I judge and condemn Liz for her choices? No. Jesus told me to judge not lest I be judged. Jesus also gave me one commandment: To love others as he loved us. And Jesus loved the publican, the Samaritan, the sinner – Jesus loved everyone. While you have delusions of ultimate wisdom and authority, I’ll leave that to God and the angels. Neither you nor I understand the will of God, nor can we judge His choices. Again, the Lord works in mysterious ways His wonders to behold.
You really thought that worm food retort was going to hurt, didn’t you? Ha! Like you have that power!!! Nice try, but all you did was once again demonstrate your own sick and twisted mind. I’m a firm believer in letting nature take it’s course. Liz no longer needs her body, and God – in His infinite wisdom – long ago arranged for the recycling.
Lily,
Thanks for confirming that Liz pursued these foolish neo-religious ceremonies contrary to the advice of family and friends. It confirms my original assertion that she was stupid.